Robert Riley Saunders out of Kelowna court on Friday. During the cross-examination on Friday, Robert Riley Saunders went on to argue that the high-risk young man caring for him could not have trusted the state funds he stole for himself. Saunders worked as a social tutor at the BC Department of Children and Family Development from 1996 until his fraudulent plan was uncovered in 2018. He retained his job despite forging a university degree to take the position. Saunders pleaded guilty last September to three of the 13 criminal charges he faces, and Gardiner was heard this week before his conviction. The Gardiner hearing acts as a trial when aggravating and mitigating factors of a sentence are challenged, following a guilty plea. The primary question in Saunders’s case is whether his admissible fraud against the MCFD adversely affected the young high-risk man who cared for him. The Crown has identified 24 young people who say they were victims of its crimes. Throughout the week, Saunders claimed that the money he stole from the MCFD would never go to the young people who cared for him, as they were not eligible for various reasons. He has admitted to drawing up a series of fraudulent “Independent Living Arrangements” for young people in his care, opening joint bank accounts with them and then withdrawing the Ministry’s funds for himself. However, he claims that he fraudulently produced these documents to cover up his thefts and that the young people named in the documents were too “irresponsible” or lived in unstable environments to receive the money. Saunders’s defense is that while he stole the money that was distributed in the names of the young people, the funds were issued only as a result of his fraud, and therefore the young people were not deprived of funding that they were not entitled to. During a second day of cross-examination on Friday morning, Crown Prosecutor Heather Magnin went through several of Saunder’s Independent Living Pacts, which Saunders claims are all “fraudulent.” Saunders claims the youngsters’ signatures on some of the documents were forged by him. On Thursday, Saunders had no answer for Magnin as to why his boss had signed and approved Victim E’s Independent Living Agreements, but on Friday said he had cut, pasted and photocopied his boss’s signature from a legal document. in the Independent Living Agreements of Victim M. which claims to be completely fraudulent. “I did a lot of shady things,” Saunders said. Saunders often talked about Magnin during the interrogation on Friday and seemed to get frustrated at times, taking off big tangents when Magnin asked “yes” or “no” answers to questions. “It would have gone much faster if you had answered the questions,” Judge Steven Wilson told Saunders. “I just think it’s important for me to be able to share my own side of things after five years of various accusations and misinformation being shared on social media and news about what I did,” Saunders said. “I recognized what I did. I worked with the government from day one with what I did. I pleaded guilty to fraudulent activity and misuse of funds. “But at no point did I hurt anyone and did not get the money they deserved or intended for them.” When pressed for memory of specific events, on several occasions Saunders initially claimed to have done so, before changing his tune when asked for details. While he said on Thursday that he did not remember any of the people with whom the victim G lived in 2013, he claimed on Friday that he had specific memories from the visit to this person’s home after he was shown evidence of an Independent Living Agreement that approved payments of 200 $ every two weeks per person. The victim G. Saunders’s housing stole this money, but he claims that the Independent Living Agreement should never have been approved in this situation, as the residence was “unauthorized” and victim G was “very, very irresponsible”. Magnin suggested on Friday that Saunders never took any action to determine if this living condition could be approved and made eligible for independent living support funding. Although he had no recollection of the man on Thursday, Saunders said Friday that he now remembers visiting the man to “look inside the house” before deeming it inappropriate. “Yesterday, you did not even remember who [this person] she was … and today you remember very specific details from your interactions with her at that time [Victim G] he lived there, “said Magnin. “Yes, there are many things I remember along the way,” Saunders replied. “I continue to suggest, sir, that in fact all this interaction is a complete construction,” Magnin said. “You can suggest it, but I know I had this discussion,” Saunders said. Another young Saunders created an Independent Living Pact for 2013 – Victim F – worked, went to school at the time and had returned to live with his father. But Saunders argued Friday that the young age was not eligible to fund the Independent Living Accord that Saunders had stolen in the name of victim F. Saunders says he forged Victim F’s signature on the Independent Living Agreement, but Magnin suggested Saunders sign the document and open a joint bank account with him before telling the young man that he was not eligible for funding because he lived with his father. in an “unauthorized” residence. Magnin said Saunders then received monthly support payments for himself. Saunders denied this. While Magnin described Victim F as “good” at the time – and apparently responsible enough to manage his independent living – Saunders said the young man had mental health problems and addiction, as he was a “chronic daily marijuana smoker” and chose to live with his father who had recently spent time in prison. While Magnin hoped to complete her re-examination at Saunders on Friday, the hearing is now expected to air next week. A sentence has not yet been set for Saunders.
